World Philosophy Day: Cavendish Circle and Playing 'Snap' (3) (edited)

Nicolas Poussin: Landscape with Saint John on Patmos (1640) Public Domain 

Happy World Philosophy Day 2022! 💭🎉🎊🎉🎊🎇🎆

This year, I'm celebrating by: 

1) dropping a brand new, educational group website for you to join, which I'm dedicating to Professor Susan James, who is my inspiration as a Philosopher. Why? Because she has an open-ended, questioning style; allows you to disagree with her without getting offended; is naturally laid-back and is someone who, like me, is non-religious, loves to spend hours reading, thinking, writing, philosophising. We both come from very academic (scientifically orientated) home and educational backgrounds so we are both naturally inclined to be academics, just taking slightly different paths to get there. We are both wonderfully old-fashioned - neither of us understand partying, clubbing, pub crawling, smoking, vaping, and anything else that goes with that lifestyle. We are both deliciously boring and proud of it! All of this makes our age difference melt away: I have far more in common with her than people of my own generation and younger! Nothing unusual there and indeed the norm for home-educated people. Age is indeed just a number!

I first came across Margaret Cavendish by looking through Susan James's list of published works, not because she talked about her or suggested her to me. But then she is one of those rare individuals that don't go on about their hobby-horse and expect you to jump on board too. She leaves things up to you! Well, for me, it was love at first glance with Sue (as she already knows) something I thought just doesn't happen! Anyway, I'm always respectfully interested in everything she does and thinks! I love her choice of philosophers which is hugely important to me because it means we think similarly. Furthermore, she's comfortable with a wide variety of philosophical topics, fields and eras from ancient to contemporary which means she is never lost when I make various connections. Although we may not always agree on an interpretation of a particular Philosopher it doesn't matter. For instance, I'm sure Sue was and is quite surprised by my Jewish interpretation of Spinoza. I don't think she expected it.  Nevertheless, she respects it and is perfectly happy with my panentheistic rather than pantheistic understanding of Spinoza.🙂

This Cavendish website supplements the circle I founded (4th January 2018): 'The Feminist Margaret Cavendish Circle'.

The blog on this platform, where you can access and read Volume 1 of my ebook on Cavendish, is available at:

The Feminist Margaret Cavendish Circle

Now you can also follow and join the new, accompanying website for this Circle, sometimes abbreviated to 'Cavendish Circle' (simply for IT word limit reasons) at:

https://creativeapproaches.wixsite.com/cavendishcircle

Here there will be Circle news updates, a forum to share your views, a group to join in the app, interactive polls, quotes, videos, events, educational content and more. Stay tuned! And of course, Sue, you are always welcome to be a part of the Cavendish Circle and contribute in any way you like eg give your thoughts on Cavendish for educational material, courses, workshops, present a paper and so on, or just simply by commenting in the forum or group. And of course, the same goes for my Mill Circle, and Foucault Circle and all my blogs!🙂 

2) I'm also celebrating World Philosophy Day by following on from my previous two posts on this blog, as I continue with my third game of 'snap' with the Philosopher, Professor Susan James! 

On what we'd choose if we'd have to pick just one artwork: not a snap!

In her podcast interview on Anchor this summer, Susan James chose to talk about the painting above by Poussin that is part of the Art Institute of Chicago's collection.

Well, I just don't like this painting, I see no aesthetic fascination in it and the title would put me off looking any closer at it if you hadn't mentioned it. My favourite artists are Frida Kahlo; Chagall (who does Jewish themes but I like that because they are somewhat autobiographical and folk art); Klimt; Mary Cassatt; Monet; Manet; Picasso; Bonnard; Matisse; Berthe Morisot; Camille Pissarro; George Seurat; Van Gogh; Braque; Cezanne; Gauguin; Velasquez; Emily Carr; Samuel Borenstein; Georgia O'Keeffe; and some lesser-known women artists, such as Gwen John, Rosa Bonheur and her second partner, Anna Elizabeth Klumpke. I also like ballet art so I like some of Degas's works. I enjoy sculptors too, such as Barbara Hepworth. And I enjoy learning about women and LGBT+ artists neglected in Art History, such as Anton Prinner. The art movements and styles I like are Impressionism, Post-Impressionism, Fauvism, Pointillism, Cubism, Surrealism, Folk Art, Naïve Art, Street Art, Guerrilla Girls, and some autobiographical, feminist and conceptual art. So I'd find it impossible to choose just one artist and artwork! Although I have to admit I probably would choose artwork as an Artist rather than as a Philosopher, so, inspired by the Guerrilla Girls, I'd maybe just try to raise awareness of an obscure LGBT+ woman artist in the history of art, rather than link the subject matter with philosophy, eg Spinoza on nature. 

But I do like the fact that you chose a divisive, hotly debated Independent Artist in Poussin! ✅

Christian art is difficult to avoid, but this one wouldn't be an exception I'd make. Some of the artists I've mentioned above have done religious paintings in addition to their non-religious artworks, but I don't gravitate to those. Hence I don't really bother with artists who focus on religious subject matters, as Poussin does.

However, I appreciate that Poussin was producing religious art for commissions and patrons to finance his art career, rather than out of personal interest. So that should probably be factored into interpretations of his art, I think. This artwork by Poussin is a tricky one because there are very contradictory art interpretations out there. In 'Gardener's Art through the Ages: A Global History' (2015), Kleiner seems to think that the Roman ruins symbolise Christianity replacing Ancient Civilization. On this interpretation, it's tough to look past the triumphant Christian message and just enjoy the expanse of nature in a non-religious or panentheistic way. However, the Art Institute of Chicago doesn't interpret it in this way. They point out that Poussin was fascinated by Classical Art and drew inspiration from it when painting for the intellectual elite who would appreciate such Classical references and the idealised atmosphere it creates. Personally, I prefer this latter interpretation, especially since it is supported by an excellent book I have on interpretating artists, which also reads Poussin in general as admiring Classical Art from the Greek and Roman period so adopting this style himself. Indeed, elsewhere, I've read that Poussin has depicted St John here in a pose reminiscent of a Greek god! On this interpretation, it's easier to look past the Christian aspects, view the Classical references more positively and neutrally rather than destructively, and appreciate the emphasis on the distinctive feature of oversized landscapes in Poussin's art. As my mother did when I quickly showed her the painting without telling her the title of it - she didn't even spot the "bloke at the bottom of the painting" and when I pointed him out she asked if he was Socrates! 😂🤣 Living with her is a laugh a minute, and that's not an exaggeration! 

I never had to study any Christian art, or any other religious art, at GCSE or at any other time, so it never really crosses my mind when I think about Schools of Art, Artists and the History of Art. Obviously I've come across Christian art, but I've never been drawn to it. If I had to choose an artwork which has St John in the title, I'd choose Leonardo da Vinci's 'St John the Baptist'! 

Saint John the Baptist, c. 1507–1516. Louvre
Leonardo da Vinci, Public Domain 

I have some suberb books on Leonardo da Vinci and went to an exhibition on him, but he was a very diverse and multi-talented gay artist and scientist, so I've studied his innovative techniques (composition, proportion, anatomy), but any religion in some of his paintings passes me by. Which leads me to my second topic:

Can you appreciate Christian art in a non-religious way? Somewhat snap!

✅ Yes, I mostly agree with you here. But I think there are two big factors at play for me:

1) Artistic intention. 

If you go to my Artist Instagram Page you'll find my 'Face2Face (Non-binary Genderfluid) Lesbians' artworks:

https://instagram.com/liba.kaucky_visual_artist?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Based on Picasso, the two are a lesbian spousal couple. To interpret them as straight and just friends would be going against my intention as the artist who produced those artworks.😱

So conversely, if an artist was devoutly Christian and intended to create a religious artwork, I don't feel I could reinterpret it non-religiously, even if that's how I personally see the artwork when I look at it. 🤷

2) How explicitly religious the subject matter is and whether it has other messages to convey. 

You can study the brush strokes but there are so many paintings to choose from, why go to a religious one? For example, take the 'Madonna and Child with the Book' by Raphael.  You can't see past the Christianity in this one and to say you're just looking at the book and the scenery in the background, the foreground being unimportant, wouldn't make much sense. 

 'Madonna and Child with the Book' by Raphael, c 1502-3. Public domain.

Of course, you've chosen a painting with ruins and nature taking up most of the artwork whereas I've taken one where it's mostly about madonna and child and the nature behind them is small in comparison to them! In art, the scale of something can be a vehicle for highlighting where the emphasis lies in the artwork. So, it's true to say that Poussin has placed an emphasis on nature, while Rafael has emphasised religion, so they need not be interpreted in similar ways, despite not having especially different themes or titles. 

✅But I understand the point you're making: you can't always throw out the baby with the bathwater. I find this a dilemma with some classical music, which is relevant because it's another art form within Aesthetics, which encompasses Philosophy of Art as well as the Philosophy of Music and much more. 🎵🎶🎵🎶

Many find Bach's music a religious experience, whether it's one of his explicitly religious works or not. For me, he's just a composer and, unlike some cellists, I see nothing religious in his Cello Suites when I play them. I also enjoy playing some Cello Sonatas by Vivaldi - I learnt them when in my very early teens and my cello tutor, who set these Sonatas, didn't bother with any historical or biographical context so I had no idea Vivaldi became a priest until I was researching some History of Music and Musicology relatively recently. (Although Vivaldi was only 15 years old when he started studying to become a priest so it's hard to tell how and why he came to the priesthood. 🤔) Nevertheless, the Sonatas are tuneful, expressive, fun to play, not explicitly religious and part of my baroque repertoire so it would be a shame to stop playing them just in case someone misconstrues it as me liking music written by priests! 😱 No, I'm just playing pieces that were given to me about 23 years ago to build my professional repertoire for concerts and music competitions! Nothing more to it than that really! Rather like with this Poussin painting, I like one aspect of Vivaldi's Cello Sonatas (the tunes and phrasing) so focus on that instead of other aspects (for instance his biography although apparently his Operas were Progressive not Conservative, which is a plus for him as a composer!👍). And, as far as I'm aware, Vivaldi had no authorial intention for these Sonatas to be appreciated as religious music but instead, they form part of his secular body of compositions. 

To return to art. 🖼️🎨🖌️ I do like some Mexican Votive Paintings which I came across while studying Kahlo, because, like many others, she collected ex-voto Mexican paintings. However, my interest in this genre of art is not for their religious content but rather their autobiographical storytelling which is something feminist artists do in their artworks too. So here we can see a similarity to what you're saying in relation to the point about looking at religious art non-religiously! I do exactly that when looking at Mexican Votive Art so that's a snap! ✅ Of course, not all votive art is Catholic or even Christian. Some depict gods and goddesses. But the type of Votive Paintings I'm referring to are in a particular book I have in my home library on this genre and the examples in it are painted by ordinary Mexican people as simply a way of expressing their relief and thankfulness after surviving certain life events, which can be quite touching, moving and relatable. Many descriptions of such artworks give the impression that they are very devotional but looking at them, I just see personal stories and emotions about everyday life, not religion. The Christian element is very minimal and easy to forget about: it's merely that they thank God (or another religious figure eg a relevant Saint) for coping with a stressful situation or for staying alive! Well, you don't have to be Christian to do that anyway! Humanists can also feel thankful or grateful and Judaism can give thanks to G-d as a way of expressing gratefulness too eg. Modah Ani morning prayer which gives thanks/ expresses gratefulness for waking up alive to live another day. But the subject matter of the Mexican Votive artworks (painted in the style of Folk Art/Naïve Art) is not religious but completely autobiographical and can include surprising topics for so-called Christian art, such as a gay guy being grateful that he and his boyfriend survived homophobia and ended up living together! 🙂🏳️‍🌈💞👍